Mom and Dad

[KU0DM]

Hate was a bad word. Let me change that to "dislikes".

Still, the point I am trying to get across is that the bible never said anything about homosexuality. It never said it\'s wrong or right. However, it does speak of sodomy. However homosexuality and sodomy are not the same thing. So why speak out against homosexuality in a religious manner, when really it is OK according to the bible?

There is a difference between sodomy and homosexuality that is not being recognized by the Church. If it was, the Church would be OK with same sex couples, but would frown upon acts of sodomy.

Just because someone performs an act that may be an abomination, doesn\'t mean that the person in any way themselves is an abomination. So why should the Church support suppressing the rights of homosexuals, when there is nothing wrong with homosexuality?

Like I said, the Church can not prove beyond reasonable suspicion that any same sex couple will perform an act of sodomy.  

Homosexuality is a condition or feeling one might say. Sodomy is an act.  
The Bible is against the act, the Church is against the condition.

[KI4RVH]

Thanks to the Church of Christ, this couple will soon become the parents of some child.  Can you say "Mother?"  ... "Father?"

And some say biblical doctrine should be left to each individual\'s personal interpretation!

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/04/27/fashion/weddings/27self.html

MAC40

Actually that is the United Church of Christ.  They are different than the Church of Christ.  

73

Chris

[KI4RVH]

Hate was a bad word. Let me change that to "dislikes".

Still, the point I am trying to get across is that the bible never said anything about homosexuality. It never said it\'s wrong or right. However, it does speak of sodomy. However homosexuality and sodomy are not the same thing. So why speak out against homosexuality in a religious manner, when really it is OK according to the bible?

There is a difference between sodomy and homosexuality that is not being recognized by the Church. If it was, the Church would be OK with same sex couples, but would frown upon acts of sodomy.

Just because someone performs an act that may be an abomination, doesn\'t mean that the person in any way themselves is an abomination. So why should the Church support suppressing the rights of homosexuals, when there is nothing wrong with homosexuality?

Like I said, the Church can not prove beyond reasonable suspicion that any same sex couple will perform an act of sodomy.  

Homosexuality is a condition or feeling one might say. Sodomy is an act.  
The Bible is against the act, the Church is against the condition.

Its not just a sodomy thing.  


Leviticus 18
22 Thou shalt not lie with mankind, as with womankind: it is abomination.


It talks of lying with another man.   This could be any number of things.  Not necessarily sodomy.  They could just be lying down snuggling up kissing.  The lying with a man is referring to homosexuality.



27 And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompense of their error which was meet.


Here the Bible talks about burning lust for another man.  This is homosexuality.  There is no mention here of sodomy.  


Romans 1
26 For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature:



This speaks of men having vile affections (Homosexuality) and the women going against nature.  Lesbianism is against the Bible as well.  Its not all about sodomy.

73

Chris

[KU0DM]

So does that mean it is an abomination if you lie with one of your own sex, or if you are homosexual?

What if someone is homosexual but does not have a burning lust? Does that still make them wrong?

How is homosexuality a vile affection?  

"I want God\'s gay and lesbian children to know of God\'s unconditional love and acceptance of them as well. We cannot find any condemnation in scripture for committed monogamous same-sex relationships." Rev. Charles Coppinger, Chaplain of the Arizona Legislature in a letter to legislators, sent 2000-NOV-7, announcing that he is a gay male.

   "The half-dozen biblical references to homosexuality do not reflect what we understand today about loving relationships. This is an identity, not a sin." The Rev. Dan Johnson of Good Samaritan United Methodist Church in Edina,MN.

   
Are Bible translators truly free of bias?

The answer is no. They have never been free to translate the Bible as their understanding of the original Hebrew, Aramaic and Greek dictated. One famous example was the translation of the King James Version of the Bible. The translators were pressured into attacking "witches" where:
bullet   The original Hebrew text in the Hebrew Scriptures (Old Testament) discussed women who used spoken curses to hurt or kill others.
bullet   The original Greek text in the Christian Scriptures (New Testament) discussed people who murdered others through the use of poison.

Source

The bible makes comments based on circumstances, no where does it have a flat out "No, this is wrong". Until that happens, it is unknown what the true message is due to the fact the many translations of it may have changed over time.

Even if the bible did issue a flat out NO, do you think it is still right that the government should suppress the rights of homosexuals? Or that the Church should support suppressing the rights?

[crazy]

Sodomy is a sin, against God and nature, obviously a mistake, and should be treated as such.  I showed you what God had to say about it.  Are you a higher authority than God Almighty?  I  think not.  Do what makes you happy, but do not pretend that God approves of it, or that others ought to.  Some of us are Christians and try our best to live life according to Gods word.  If you are not/do not, then don\'t try to be a Christian.  Because you cannot, absolutely cannot, in No way whatsover, be a sodomist and a Christian.  Repent why you are still breathing, because each breath might be your last, and we are not guaranteed tomorrow.  Don\'t take that chance for a little bit of sin.  

God help you,  crazy

[KU0DM]

I understand perfectly what you claim God said about sodomy.

But what does that mean in terms of homosexuality? Are you 100% okey dokey unless you commit sodomy? Do you think sodomy is the exact same thing as homosexuality? I have stated that homosexuality and sodomy are not the same thing. So why does the Church try and treat them as the exact same?

I think someone could be a sodomist and still be Christian. Does committing an act of sodomy automatically mean you don\'t believe in God or Jesus? Abomination or not, God loves you. Right? Or is it a conditional love?

Lastly, are you suggesting I\'m a sodomist by your final remark?
I hope you are not.

[KI4RVH]

So does that mean it is an abomination if you lie with one of your own sex, or if you are homosexual?

What if someone is homosexual but does not have a burning lust? Does that still make them wrong?

How is homosexuality a vile affection?  







Source

The bible makes comments based on circumstances, no where does it have a flat out "No, this is wrong". Until that happens, it is unknown what the true message is due to the fact the many translations of it may have changed over time.

Even if the bible did issue a flat out NO, do you think it is still right that the government should suppress the rights of homosexuals? Or that the Church should support suppressing the rights?

Religious intolerance if the real angel of death.

Duncan,

We\'re going to have to agree to disagree on this one I guess.  You can find sources on the Internet that will agree with most anything you want to believe in.  That doesn\'t make it right in my opinion.  The Bible is plain and simple.  Read it for yourself.  There are several versions on the net if you don\'t have access to one.  It doesn\'t matter what the government does or doesn\'t do.  They are not the ultimate authority.  They can legalize murder if they want to but that will not make it right.  The Church should preach what is Biblical.  The Church doesn\'t and can\'t suppress anyones rights.  No Church is going to send people to someones house and prevent them from sinning.  Homosexuals have the right to do whatever they please.  That doesn\'t make it right.  Adultery is perfectly legal.  That doesn\'t make it right.  No Church will show up to check and see who people go to bed with.  We have free will. As far as your sig and religious tolerance, Religious Tolerance used to mean tolerating all other beliefs.  Seems today everyones beliefs are tolerated except Bible believing Christians.  

73

Chris

[crazy]

Seems today everyones beliefs are tolerated except Bible believing Christians.  

73

Chris

Multiple AMENS to that!  I agree as much as a man can.  more than most, I guarantee.

[KU0DM]

I disagree. Religious intolerance is the reason for this war in Iraq right now. Is the reason for terrorism in the world.

Trust me, I\'m plenty tolerant of Christian religions.
I just like to debate them, for or against.

Do you think that is religious intolerance?

[KI4RVH]

I disagree. Religious intolerance is the reason for this war in Iraq right now. Is the reason for terrorism in the world.

Trust me, I\'m plenty tolerant of Christian religions.
I just like to debate them, for or against.

Do you think that is religious intolerance?

I thought Iraq was about Oil.  I think you asking questions or debating or whatever you want to call it is fine.  I\'m just to old to stay on here tonight and do this anymore.  Us old guys got to go to bed.  You brought up religious intolerance.  I just stated my opinion of it.  

73

Chris

[KB3LAZ]

I curious are any of you soldiers of God?
Will any of you destroy (kill) these abominations?
If not then I guess you do not believe what it is that you preach.
Sounds hypocritical to me thall shall not kill, yet it say to destroy the abominations. Also a thought the bible was written by men not by God, so who\'s to say things were not added or omitted. Yet I shall continue to read this interesting story book.

[KI4RVH]

I curious are any of you soldiers of God?
Will any of you destroy (kill) these abominations?
If not then I guess you do not believe what it is that you preach.
Sounds hypocritical to me thall shall not kill, yet it say to destroy the abominations. Also a thought the bible was written by men not by God, so who\'s to say things were not added or omitted. Yet I shall continue to read this interesting story book.

I don\'t get where you\'re coming from.  No one said anything about destroying anything.  No one said anything about killing anyone.  God is the final judge not us.  The Bible is the inspired Word of God.  We Christians believe it was given to man to write down by God.  Please continue to read the Bible.  It can only lead to good things.

73

Chris

[KB3LAZ]

I don\'t get where you\'re coming from.  No one said anything about destroying anything.  No one said anything about killing anyone.  God is the final judge not us.  The Bible is the inspired Word of God.  We Christians believe it was given to man to write down by God.  Please continue to read the Bible.  It can only lead to good things.

73

Chris

What I was referring to was a statement about destroying abominations, which basically means kill. Not that it matters as my words will never sway any of you, but i do not wish to. For the same reason i dont hate gays. It would be a boring world if everyone was exactly the same.
As for me reading the bible I have for a long time, as well as other religious and secular writings, However not all are Christan.  Maybe I fail to agree with you all because Im not a Christan.  I just didnt think that Christians were suppose to hold malice in their harts.

[KE6SHJ]

Religion and gays is a very touchy subject. Im out on that one. Personally gays should be dropped off in Syberia and left there but who am I to say what one does in ones life *shrug*

[crazy]

Religion and gaysmis a very touchy subject. Im out on that one. Personally gays should be dropped off in Syberia and left there but who am I to say what one does in ones life *shrug*

I\'m with ya on that one.  The men anyway,  but that makes me a hypocrit, because I was born a lesbian.  :tongue-vi:

I\'m glad the ultimate decision is not up to me, really.  Because I would be HARSH.   The world might be boring, but it would be nice, with very orderly Husband/Wife/Children relationships.  I guess that is a dream though.